Do Mormons Believe that Christ and Satan Are Brothers?
77ACCUSATION: "Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers!"
Peddlers of anti-restoration propaganda like to make this claim. It is effective because it is so shocking, and it scares people away from those evil "Mormons."
So could such a sensational statement have any validity?
Well, yes. We do believe that Jesus Christ and Satan are brothers. But so does anyone who believes in the Bible.
You disagree? Well, let's think about this...
Satan and Angels
First, who is Satan? According to the Bible, Satan is the fallen angel Lucifer. He was once a glorified being, but he and many other angels fell from grace long ago, becoming devils and demons.
So Satan is an angel, right? Or at least he was at one point.
Now, where did the angels come from? Are they coeternal with God, or did God create them? The Bible does not explicitly say, but in Job 38:6-7, it does state that, when the world was created, the sons of God shouted for joy. Since Adam would have been the only man in the whole world just after it was created, we can only infer that the "sons of God" who are doing the shouting here were the angels. Therefore, angels are the children of God, just as we are.
Us
But in what sense are we the children of God? My father is a sales manager, not a God. So how am I a child of God?
Well,
though my body comes from this world, my spirit was literally born of
God. As were the spirits of Lucifer and Michael the Archangel.
Jesus Christ
Now, if men and angels are all the children of God, why is it that Christ is referred to as THE Son of God and the Only Begotten of the Father? If we are all God's children, how is Christ the Only Begotten?
Definitions of Parentage
There are three senses by which one may define one's parentage: spiritual, physical, and soteriological (regarding salvation through an intercessor).
In the spiritual sense, as I have already shown, men, angels, demons, Satan, and Christ are all siblings because we were all born of God. If you deny this fact, then you must either believe that Satan and his demons predated God or you must believe that someone other than God created the angels who eventually fell and became Satan and his minions. But if you believe that angels and men are the children of God, then you are left without options. You must believe that Christ and Satan were both born of God spiritually. And why is this such a surprise? The Bible tells us that Lucifer was a glorious being before he fell.
If God the Father is not degraded for having a son like Satan, why would Christ be degraded for having a brother like Satan?
In the physical sense, though, the definitions of parentage start to get tricky. Our physical parentage is obvious: we are the children of our biological parents. Satan, however, has never been born into this world. Because of that, he has no physical father. Christ, though, is different from everyone else in this sense because He is the Only Begotten of the Father. He is called the Only Begotten of the Father for a very simple reason: He is the only one who can claim God the Father as His physical father.
Some people hear that and immediately get to shouting about how "Mormons don't believe that Mary was a virgin!" and "Mormons believe God raped Mary!" But no, we do not believe those things. We believe that Christ was born from a virgin mother, just as the Bible says. And we also believe that Christ is the Only Begotten of the Father...just as the Bible says. If that were a reference to His spiritual parentage rather than His physical parentage, then we and the angels could not be the children of God, now, could we?
In the soteriological sense, Christ can be our father, because He adopts us and brings us back into the family of God. This is an issue because, when we sin, we are estranged from the family of God to which pure spirits belong. The Atonement is Christ's method of adopting us back into that family and allowing us to partake of the blessings of Eternal Life.
Satan, on the other hand, has refused all opportunity for reconciliation, so he does not have a soteriological father either.
And again, Christ is different from the rest of us because He is saved by God's justice, not needing a merciful intercessor. So, having never fallen from grace, Christ is the son of God the Father in the soteriological sense as well.
Conclusion
So let's break that down again...
I am the son of:
- God the Father.
- Roger.
- Jesus Christ.
Satan is the son of:
- God the Father.
- No one.
- No one.
Christ is the son of:
- God the Father.
- God the Father.
- God the Father.
It is very simple. If you believe the Bible and are capable of understanding plain logic, then you have no choice but to believe that Christ and Satan are brothers in the spiritual sense. But in the physical sense and in the soteriological sense, they are not brothers.
CommentsLoading...
"I do not believe that Satan and Jesus were or are brothers."
Apparently, you did not read my hub.
I just proved logically that Jesus and Satan are brothers IN ONE SENSE. In order to prove otherwise, you must prove to me that Satan was not created in the image of God as were all other angels and humans. If you cannot prove that, then you must admit that Jesus and Satan are brothers. The fact that they are enemies - or that one is good and one is evil - does not change that.
Let me explain it again in another way:
In the spiritual sense, Jesus, Satan/Lucifer, the angels in heaven, and all of the people on Earth are all brothers and sisters. That is because we are all created in the image of God.
In the physical sense, we are not brothers and sisters, because Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, you and I have our respective earthly parents, and Satan has never been born physically.
In the soteriological sense, Christians are brothers and sisters, with Jesus Christ as our father. In this sense, again, Satan has no parentage (because he has forever fallen from grace), so he is not our brother and Jesus is not his brother.
Again, if you want to say that Jesus and Satan are not brothers in the spiritual sense, you must show me evidence that Satan/Lucifer, though being a fallen angel, was not created in the image of God.
You have stated that Jesus and Satan are brothers ' in one sense', by creation of God the Father. However, the Scriptures show that Jesus was not created; He is God.
Paul writes in Philippians 2:6f NASB that "...although He [Jesus] existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself taking the form of a bond-servant and being made in the likeness of men."
John shows in the Gospel of John 1:1-4 that Jesus (the Word (logos)) was God from the beginning. Jesus was and is and will continue to be God; never created but always existing. John 1:14 shows Jesus (the Word) becoming a man.
You also state that there are 3 senses by which one may define parentage. There are at least 4. You missed the legal sense. Jesus became the son of Joseph in the legal (adoption) sense to fulfill the prophecy that the Messiah would come from the line of David.
Check this information:
http://trinityandhumanity.wordpress.com/2009/11/22
to Artin2010:
Lucifer was the archangel (so most Christian theology teaches), but then became Satan when he rebelled against God. I cannot believe that the two are separate beings.
Well, now you are taking this into a discussion about trinitarianism, which is a completely separate discussion altogether, but I will address it briefly.
Anyone completely unacquainted with Christianity who goes and reads John 17 can clearly see that the Father and the Son are separate and distinct beings. In John 17, we see Jesus Christ's heart-filled supplication to the Father, begging Him to let the bitter cup pass over Him.
Heavenly Father does not have a multiple personality disorder.
Yes, there are plenty of places in the New Testament where it says that the Father and the Son are one. And yet, in John 17, we see Christ pleading with the Father help Christians become unified and be one "as we are one." Multiple times, He states that it is the goal of Christians to become one as the Father and the Son are one. In believing in Christ, do we become one blob of identity? No. In believing in Christ, Christians become unified SYMBOLICALLY, just as the unity of the Father and the Son is symbolic.
Examples of Christ's subservience to the Father is seen throughout the New Testament.
At one point in my life, I went to the New Testament with a specific question in mind: Is the trinitarian nature of the Christian God figurative or literal? I read the whole New Testament in about a week, making notes of every single scripture that could be interpreted either way on the issue.
And do you know what I found?
When you assume that the trinitarian nature of God is literal, that does not make one bit sense with the many verses that suggest the opposite. However, when you assume that the trinitarian nature of God is figurative, every single verse that people use to say the opposite can be easily explained.
The idea that the Father and the Son are one being is not logical and not Biblical. It was something forced upon Christianity by the pressure of Greek philosophy. The Protestant world continues under this assumption as a matter of cultural prejudice rather than scriptural or logical evidence.
(By the way, for what it's worth, John Milton - the greatest literary champion of Protestantism - agrees with me.)
As for the distinction between Lucifer and Satan...
Yes, it is quite clear that they are the same being. The assertion that "Satan is an evil entity based here on earth to assist Lucifer in creating confusion and doubt" is contrary to the Biblical account. Not that it matters all that much.
I think it is asinine and illogical to merely state that: Jesus HAS to be Lucifer's brother because they were both made by God.
First: angels, according to scripture, were not made in God's image. That was part of His joy in making us in His image and with the free will to choose Him. An image though, is not an exact copy of, it is an image of... Like when you look in the mirror, it is your image, that doesn't mean your reflection is or could ever be the same thing. (Clearly that sends my mind spinning on LDS belief that God is not the ONE ALMIGHTY GOD, who always was, and that there will be no other gods.. but that He is only one of infinite gods who was once a man on another planet who followed LDS belief and became our god and made us).. But irregardless of the origin of who you believe to be God. The fact that both Jesus and Satan were made by Him doesn't mean they are brothers. If you wish to completely ignore the fact that angels are not Gods chosen human people, but more akin to His tools or at least a different kind of creature He made... Only then can you begin to illogically claim both to be considered His 'sons' and hence brothers.
For instance, I have a son, but then I make a cake from scratch.. that cake is not my sons brother just because I made it just as I made my son. If I were god (or an exalted Mormon) I could breathe life into that cake and give it a soul and even free will. Does that then make that cake my son's brother.. or as that son and cake's god when I say "my children" (and by inference who is who's brother) do I not have the ability to distinguish between the cake I made and my own chosen human children?
I am not writing in the goal of only being contrary, I am having trouble understanding your logic. This is my own logic as I see it in the Bible. God made EVERYTHING.. EVERYTHING. But the first dog, cactus, cockroach- they were not Adam's brothers in the sense of the word, and neither are they ours, nor are simply another different creation, such as the angels our, Adam's, or Jesus', brothers.
By extension of this logic and the biblical separation of angels and humans, I do have trouble with the basis you believe is so logical (though not from the Bible, only "new" scriptures) that Jesus and Satan were your man-God's first spirit children.. and our brothers in pre-existence.. That they both presented a plan for our salvation and God chose Jesus'.
To me I believe the Bible showed Lucifer as God's favorite angel... and Jesus according to scripture "always was".. but that Satan was cast out from heaven for what..? For wishing that he too could become a god like the REAL GOD. That sounds remarkably familiar. I don't believe that Satan and Jesus could be brothers in real life logic, nor from and Bible fact.. and I don't believe nor wish to become a god like Satan desires. I desire only to believe and trust in the real and infallible scripture that Jesus Christ himself had memorized (and the dead sea scrolls coincide with as before and after Christ to today's version) and the gospel of the ONE TRUE Jesus Christ.. not any diluted or redefined version of Christ. I only desire instead of becoming a god to become more (in my life and actions) like the ONLY man/god EVER BEFORE IN ETERNITY Jesus Christ.
I challenge you not to just delete my entry of biblical fact and real logic simply because it cannot be refuted by anything other than a blind faith in 'scripture' extemporaneous to the Bible... but to instead prove me wrong with real logic and without redefining and rewriting what God already said in the book (the Bible) which you clearly believe too (albeit "only so far as it was translated correctly"). I truly just wanted to share the insight blessed through God's Word that doesn't align with what you display as an open and shut case.
First off, I do not delete posts unless the writer clearly has read nothing that I have written. And even then I don't always delete.
Second, you clearly read way too much anti-Mormon propaganda (with all of your "exalted Mormon" talk) to be able to offer an objective opinion on the matter. The fact that the sources of your information are all people who make lucrative livings off of their professional "ministries" says a lot. I challenge you to find even ONE website or book authored by a Mormon specifically for the purpose of spreading propaganda about your faith the way the books and websites you've been reading do with ours.
That said, some points:
"First: angels, according to scripture, were not made in God's image."
Where does it say that in scripture?
It doesn't. Anywhere.
However, we do have this passage in Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
According to your logic, when the world was created, Adam would have been the only son of God around. But who were "all the sons of God" who shouted for joy? They were the angels. Pretty easy. That's what the Bible actually says on the matter.
"To me I believe the Bible showed Lucifer as God's favorite angel... and Jesus according to scripture "always was".. but that Satan was cast out from heaven for what..? For wishing that he too could become a god like the REAL GOD. That sounds remarkably familiar."
Every single time someone has committed sin, it was because they sought something good by incorrect means. Lucifer was no exception.
"I don't believe that Satan and Jesus could be brothers in real life logic, nor from and Bible fact.. and I don't believe nor wish to become a god like Satan desires."
If you do not want Godly glory, then you do not want what Jesus Christ wants for you. As the Lord says in Revelation 3:
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
If I were to read this verse from a Protestant pulpit and act as if it were from The Book of Mormon, they would all be outraged and shout about how blasphemous The Book of Mormon is. But it's not from The Book of Mormon: it's from the Bible.
Christ's desire for us is pretty clear. The Protestant tendency to obsess over how absolutely worthless we are--though true in a sense--robs us of the vision of the potential we have by trusting in Christ.
Quite honestly, I believe you are doing an exceptional job defending your belief in a non-confrontational manner. I apologize for being overly labeling in what you define as information from propaganda.. You are right though, I did read it from a biased source making a lucrative profit: since I have been reading in the D & C and the sermons taught by the LDS president prophets (at the times they were current presidential prophets and hence: LDS scripture). One of many such teachings and doctrine is the King Follet Sermon by the great Jospeh Smith as the current presidential prophet who spoke the word of god, but also many others since that I have read on. I cannot read any of that and see anything biblical aside from Galations 1 6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
So it isn't just propaganda, I know that in fact exaltation to becoming an equal to god.. a fellow god, just as god did back when he was man, is what is doctrine literally not just in anything symbolic.. Though I did merely allude to the most basic explanation-although it REALLY isn't taught much in sermons today and many LDS followers (who in my personal experience are exceptionally godly and GREAT people) may have never even heard in a church service.
You misunderstand what bringing glory to God is. In the prompting of my own heart via the Holy Spirit being glorified together with Christ is not becoming a god. Clearly I too can quote many scripture alluding to the ultimate goal of living a life which honors and gives Glory to God. One such :
Rom. 8: 16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
This too is one such Bible scripture often stood on by the LDS to prop up exaltation. In my own spirit led understanding, I most assuredly wish to honor God, be his heir through Christ and be glorified together.. I am His heir in truth, life, love, salvation, eternity, etc... That glory, being glorified together with Christ is ONLY the glory that points ONLY to Christ / God through and in us. Much the way as Stephen is killed in Acts. He TRULY sounds JUST like Christ, the way he is preaching the truth, everything he said and did.. even as he is being murdered crying out to God to please forgive his murderers. Now when we look back at Paul or Stephen we are seeing him glorified together with Christ... It doesn't mean I wish to be a god (god in the Smith god of planet way) and have that kind of godly glory. I desire instead to be a heir of God through Christ in such a way that he and Christ are glorified together, this is not [absolutely worthless] of me [robbing me of the vision of potential by trusting Christ].. Though I am not exactly protestant.. I buy no man-made religion, I am part of the church of the One God and real Jesus Christ. The glory is all through and of God, our life's goal is to be as perfect of an example of Christ/God that our representation so closely shares God's love and message. That IS GLORY. That is the gospel.
Many other Bible scripture pointed to is the quotes like Jesus pointed from Psalms that says "does the scripture not say that we are gods"... However in the original language that word god, is much like the word Love in Spanish.. In English we just say love, I love my car, I love my wife, I love this weather... Clearly that one word doesn't mean the same thing in each use. In Spanish they use different words for romantic, familial, or appreciative love. That same version of god used both when Jesus referenced it and in the old testament is like the word used in the temptation in the Garden of Eden.. You will be as gods. (knowing right from wrong)
When we die our souls will live forever. Some scripture points to receiving a glorified body in heaven. Clearly we are more than a monkey or a dog. In fact God promised we would be above all the beasts on the Earth, that we would reign over the Earth.. Does not the word "Lord" refer to one lording over you. Clearly we are gods in some versions of the word. But in LDS scripture itself it says this:
• D&C 88: 107
107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.
To me, through my own burning bosom and throughout Bible scripture, NOWHERE is this acceptable, encouraged, or even remotely desired.. Except for once... It is glorifying God as much as when that angel decided the same thing, that HE wanted to become equal with God. That is the only place you will find it. So if that is the kind of godly glory that you said I don't want.. You are right, I don't. But neither is that Christ's teaching for us. I explained earlier what He taught as glorifying God, and the real apostles followed this, today's Christians who truly trust and follow the word desire and see this from the living word today as sharing glory with God.
On to your Job quote. I thought you may come back to that. According to the original language the wording here is very important. This is the original translation of that verse with what it actually means.. the word "ben" is used for "the sons" of verse 7 in Job 38. It's definition transcends that of what we refer of as a son today. It includes a literal son as a builder of a family name (which could be construed of angel I suppose) and moves into much wider figurative relationship--- IE: God-Made, definitely angels are God-Made.
and all the sons
ben (bane)
a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc.
Although that does bring me to a personal research of mine.. Using the same version of the word in Genesis I have always pondered the possibilities of the (same God-Made) version of sons of God who were giants and whatnot.. Clearly I have my own theories.. but the point is, your "proof" angels are our brothers is not that. That particular verse was originally written as son = God-Made, of God, in His Name.
So here is my reason for my passion. To me, it is clear that angels and men are different. Gods and angels are different. God and men are different. Etc. It IS scriptural in anything that is not outside the Bible.. And in anything inside the Bible, there IS ONE GOD ONLY. According to Him who cannot lie and knows everything. To me it seems a delusion to try to portray Christ as Satan's brother to perpetuate the illusion that we are all one of many gods (who was once a man like us) who happened to make us as spirit babies in pre-existence. It is truly just one of the many building blocks which makes up that house of cards, but under the weight of truth in the Bible, it cannot stand. It is not through Joseph Smith that any will be saved or led to salvation. The only place where Jesus and Satan were brothers (outside of the sense that they were God-made.. as EVERYTHING ELSE in existence is too) is in a world where Jesus has not Always existed.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." - (NASB) John 8:58 (Reference Exodus 3:14 in which God says His name is "I AM". Jesus is using a play on words to apply the same name to himself.)
"He [Jesus] is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." - (NASB) Colossians 1:17
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - (NASB) John 1:1 (See John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh, and dwelt am
sorry.. it got cut off at the end.. I will continue with that scripture:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - (NASB) John 1:1 (See John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us… The "Word" is Jesus.)
All three are one. Jesus / God / Holy Spirit. There is one God. If Jesus always existed OR is the great I AM.. He is God, there is one God. He is the only begotten son as God decided to take on human flesh and be a man/god to die for our sins. He was then 100% man, 100% God in perfect balance. To redefine the original church of Jesus Christ and call what Christ himself designed an apostasy, to redefine who He was and to call Him the brother of a fallen angel... seems like talking about somebody else, because scripture is clear about who Jesus Christ was and is. He was the most well recorded and historically documented human being EVER to exist as were His teachings.. They weren't lost, nor was the true nature of God lost to such an extent that we forgot he used to just be a man, we can be gods, and Satan and Jesus were both His first children.
2 Corinthians 11 2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." 6I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.
This is the first time I have had this discussion with anyone. I started researching Mormon doctrine a while back in an attempt to understand exactly what a person I care about is going to be taught in their church and it literally scares the same prompting of the Holy Spirit which has validated and directed me after my acceptance of Jesus Christ and baptism. I am sorry if I came off as rude or pushy, I am kind of bad about that in things that make me passionate, and Christ is the most important thing in my life. I truly am not intending any condescending or anger toward you AT ALL.. You didn't set up any lies or say anything that was not written within what your leaders have laid before you. (and you laid that belief out very well, more organized and professional than myself, you seem a much more trained speaker of these things than I) I truly only have love for you, but the more that I learn of less publically displayed LDS doctrine the more sickened it makes my heart feel in relation to the living Word of God and the twisting of His words that is necessary for such a turn from scripture.
I know that you believe you are a Christian, and in any literal sense you are. I know that you are very studious and devoted to Jesus Christ. I merely challenge you to get your juice from the source. As I laid out, it seems as though we are following two different Jesus Christ, if so we both have two different testifying spirits accepted in our hearts..
truly I commend you on your approach and your apologetic. I really do appreciate your honest and just approach of hearing and debating with a stand contrary to you. I mean you no offense in anything I say and am merely stating what I read of the truth, and I understand that you are doing the same thing (perhaps better than I, while either of our quality of speaking doesn't lend gravity to the content) don't let it be construed as me being unappreciative of your approach.
The reason I thought it would be deleted is I found this hub from another LDS hub I was reading where anyone who quoted scripture or spoke anything that could be construed as contrary was not only not debated or explained, but instantly deleted from viewing.
So I truly do appreciate you, and even though I may get bold on my claims, I mean you nothing but love and only want to debate theology (separate from us as individuals).
I would like to learn more about EXACTLY what you believe if you would share this with me. I have read LDS scriptures and presidential prophet's teaching over their years, but I can always appreciate learning more from followers in a faith in an attempt to better understand exactly what 'they' believe. If ever you wish to help me and clear up my misconception of the LDS truth, email me at InvisibleCaveat@aol.com share with me, and or lay out some good info / links. If not, I understand as you are clearly under no obligation. But I would like to understand exactly what truly is doctrine in the LDS faith.
So, I do appreciate you, and I find it commendable that you didn't delete my posts. You are very learned and respectful. It was nice to stumble onto your hub.
Thanks-
Aaron
I am not going to discuss the concept of Divine Nature or the King Follet discourse, because those are not pertinent to this hub. It's truly disconcerting how so many career critics of my faith are incapable of making a clear, poignant argument and staying on topic.
As for your assertion that you have not read any anti-LDS propaganda, but that you have gotten ALL of your information by reading our own publications...you and I both know that's a lie.
There is one comment you made that was on topic, and that was regarding my quotation of Job:
"It includes a literal son as a builder of a family name (which could be construed of angel I suppose) and moves into much wider figurative relationship--- IE: God-Made, definitely angels are God-Made."
So you admit that angels are the sons of God because they were created by God. But that contradicts what you said earlier about angels not being the children of God.
As for your earlier comparison of angels to animals and inanimate objects...well, that is absurd. Angels are not animals or inanimate objects. Like us, they have moral agency and intellect, and every scriptural representation of angels shows them to be anthropomorphic. How can you say that they were not created in the image of God? Again, you have no scriptural evidence of this; you simply make the assertion that they are not created in the image of God, and you tell me that my points are incorrect. However, if you cannot show any scriptural evidence that angels are not created in the image of God (which you cannot), you do not have the right to criticize my scriptural evidences that they are.
Just like all of the other sectarian career critics, you posit plenty of arguments, but no answers.
As I discuss in my hub "Why Should Christians Believe in Joseph Smith?" my Church answers the following fundamental questions:
* Which of all the sects is true?
* If they are all true, why do they all disagree?
* Who has the authority to clarify what is or is not correct doctrine?
* Why doesn't God send prophets anymore?
Critics like you continue to tell us that our answers to those questions are wrong, but none of you can present adequate answers to replace them. You just have arguments.
(If you are going to try to answer those questions, do so in the hub I mentioned, and not here. For any future responses, please stay on topic.)
The angels as our 'brothers'.. I did not contradict myself in any way. The original text in Greek used the word ben which means (of God..) It means in his name THE WAY a son carries a fathers name also, it has more than one meaning, but it is not the literal word for son ie: children or offspring.. They have a literal word for child or son and that is not it, that is the figurative word for made-by. Remember my above verse from Romans scripture, chapter 8 verse
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
... Correct..? Well oddly contrary to your own statement that word used to define us in that place is not the same as the one defining the angels as son.. That is very strange if we are the same kind of (of God) or if they are our brothers. In Romans 8:16 the original text used for "we are the children of God" is the words:
hoti esmen tekna theou:
Children (teknon) literally refers to those who are born ones and so in the plural refers to descendants, posterity or children.
That is the literal word for child.. not the broader meaning as defining angels as (God-made) made from God. Hence in scripture we are not said in the same regard EVEN THOUGH IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE WE HAVE ONLY ONE WORD, CHILD, SON, OR DAUGHTER. So unless the scripture was to be infinitely longer using English definitions in the place of similar words then I can see why you are confused mixing LDS doctrine to the word without studying the original Biblical scripture.... THOUGH NO WHERE did I contradict myself and say they are "literally" our brothers. The point is they are of God, God-made, and they are defined as such.
As for your attack on my honesty, I did not say that I ONLY READ IT IN LDS.. nor did I claim to have never read historical FACTS about LDS outside their own ever-changing official stances. What I said was that I was reading it in your own scripture.. As I was, last night even, just before going to your site, from LDS.org and an online LDS scripture. In fact I said this in that same comment you claimed me of lying in [So it isn't just propaganda, I know that in fact exaltation to becoming an equal to god.. a fellow god, just as god did back when he was man, is what is doctrine literally not just in anything symbolic.. ]
I said it isn't "just" in propaganda.. When did I claim that all I have ever read was ALL ONLY LDS approved version of their current claim of what is true..? I never did, all I said was it is LDS doctrine as it is in the doctrines and covenants and that it is taught as the founder of the religion taught it.. Clearly I have read both sides information since I quoted LDS scripture as well, and I am aware both sides have the same claims on the subject.. If you feel I am still lying read your own scripture or listen to the man who formed the 'religion' and see what he has to say on the topic.. Regardless of whether it was canonized, according to the same VOICE OF GOD you place your faith, their words are scripture and I can quote that claim for you as well.. They go on to define their own word as scripture but that the current prophet can supersede any before.. Which is puzzling in the context of spoken as the never-changing word of god.. but that's your prerogative.
If you see God as a judge and chooser of good things, then angels are not made in God's image.
According to scripture he made angels before man, clearly, but they are not part of his plan for salvation. They are a tool he uses that are in some ways subservient to man. In 1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? Why not ordinary matters!
Clearly they are two different beings, and they are incapable of death. They are spirit beings which can appear in the form of man or not.
In Luke 20:36 In fact, they can no longer die, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection.
That is another good verse for you to misinterpret. Although in the original language, Greek, it again is the same version of "sons" relating to (God-made) it is not the literal sense of children of God as in the above verse which I showed earlier in this comment. But clearly we are two different things mentioned only as being equal. Were we literally brothers, the greek author being used by the Holy Spirit to speak for God would have used the familial, literal word for son and not the word meaning only made by God. It is clear and straightforward.
The content in the Bible IS perfect. It IS the word of God. It does begin at the beginning of time (and the creation of all universes, not just this one and one god's) and it is prophesied through to the end. They also warn of false prophets who will teach of different Christs. To be perfectly frank I believe that the LDS stand on the Bible is 100% bass-ackwards. You believe in the Bible so far as it was translated correctly, but place it below the teachings of Joseph Smith. I believe the Bible above ANYTHING ON EARTH, except perhaps in your confusion due to translation.. (Yes yes, the devils work, you are right, so it would be good to study the original text and language as well) and if you correctly follow the lineage of revelation and authority of God it went from Jesus straight to any whom accept the one true Jesus and as such receive the authority and direction given by the Holy Spirit. In essence I believe the Bible is 100% the word of God, except so far as we misinterpret it when trying to change context, add doctrine, or reword it into another language... That doesn't relate to its inferiority, but our own. BUT the Holy Spirit certainly has the ability to guide you in places such as this if you are fervent and study the original text and the meaning of anything that you would try to place an entire doctrinal change on such as the nature of God and of angels. The scripture itself is complete and is God's word. If you take it and put it into another language it is still God's word, you just have to actually have a relationship with Christ and the Holy Spirit to understand it in places such as exact wording.. clearly if we translate into another language certain words it came from may have had two meanings or a different meaning than an exact word in our own (such as your Son problem), as such it would be hue of a real Christian to research the original message and pray over what it means. Verily I say unto you, You have misinterpreted the word we used as son in the lines referring to angels as that word literally and perfectly only means of God and God made in the strongest sense of the word it is that they were made in His name and carry said name... When they are literally speaking of sons, they use the literal word for sons. We however do not have a literal and figurative word of sons.. Hence I understand your confusion and judge ye not.
Does that mean the Bible is wrong... NO, it means that they are their sons in the symbolic sense of being made by God (but duh! He made everything), as is the word originally used. It is clear that it is only figurative as God made, because they used the word that clearly says this. The fact that you can take a single word and try to place a doctrine over-top it doesn't mean even this translation is imperfect, it means the Bible is being misinterpreted, which is the reason a real Christian is to be studious to real scripture and obedient to the real Holy Spirit.
You cannot logically claim I only say "NO" and gave no truth or the real answer, I did not discredit you and give no replacement answer. What I have done, is I stated (the more than adequate) answer that is actually the only one in the scripture.
1) Angels are not the same as humans as per many many Biblical verses, some I quoted above and you can reread, or if you would like more I can find you more.
2) Angels are not gods children in the literal sense to which you infer by portraying Jesus as the literal brother of Satan. If he or we were literal family, literal brothers of angels, then why then in the Bible, in REAL scripture is the word we translated into son for angels "ben" meaning (made in the name of, related to, or made by) and the word we translated into son for humans "tekna" (a tense of the word teknon, meaning the literal descendants). NOT JUST IN ONE OR TWO PLACES, BUT EVERYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE WHERE ANGELS ARE REFERRED TO as sons the original text uses this seperation.
3) Angels are not made in God's image. Clearly from different scripture this is alluded to, some I already quoted, if you would like more I can give you more. The goal of the Bible was never to dwell on angels as the purpose is God and the good news of Jesus, but also the same truth inside the words used lends into this argument too. If angels are His "sons" as "ben" then they are not His literal descendants or children.. Clearly from the "teknon" used to describe us (whom is mentioned as in the image of) as His literal offspring, literal children.. Then we are in His image and the creation that is not even His literal descendant is not. Would you not say that your literal offspring is similar to your image? There are scriptures that allude to this, though no where will you find the explicit words they are (or not) made in His image. Angels were never the spotlight in the Bible, just one creation and one tool. Since the only scriptures point to them not being in his image and not the same kind of creation as us, then it is un-biblical to try to make the case they are in fact the same and in his image too since that is never written nor alluded to, while the opposite is alluded to multiple times.
So how is it you claim that I am incapable of making a clear and poignant argument.. and how is it you attempt to claim scripture to back yourself up when in fact that very scripture itself does the complete opposite. Clearly you could quote a book superfluous to the Bible to back it up, because I have read it there too, but it does IN ACTUALITY contradict the Bible, and according to God any prophet that does that is not speaking for God since his truth is never-changing. In NO WAY were any of my comments just [telling you your answers were wrong] and not [presenting adequate answers to replace them]. Clearly I have explained to you what the actual scripture you are misinterpreting truly says and what it means... There is only one answer, so regardless of whether or not you choose to accept the truth, the truth is greater than [just arguments] that you claim I bring, while in fact it seems your claim is facing a mirror unless you have no real argument to the fact inside the scripture.
"When did I claim that all I have ever read was ALL ONLY LDS approved version of their current claim of what is true..?"
Second comment, first paragraph:
"You are right though, I did read it from a biased source making a lucrative profit: since I have been reading in the D & C and the sermons taught by the LDS president prophets (at the times they were current presidential prophets and hence: LDS scripture)."
Does that answer your question?
"The content in the Bible IS perfect. It IS the word of God."
Okay...which Bible? KJV? NKJV? NIV? The Cowboy Bible? How many different versions do you have on your shelf? The mere fact that you have or recognize multiple translations proves that you do NOT believe it is perfect. You cannot have two different translations of the Bible that are both perfect.
Just as the Word of God could not be written by anyone but a prophet, it cannot be translated or correctly interpreted by anyone but a prophet. Your faith is based on the scholarly work of members of the Pharisaic profession--people who think that studying Greek and Hebrew and memorizing holy texts makes them God's representatives. Such people have a long history of garnishing the graves of dead prophets with one hand while they stone living prophets with the other.
"and if you correctly follow the lineage of revelation and authority of God it went from Jesus straight to any whom accept the one true Jesus and as such receive the authority and direction given by the Holy Spirit."
What scriptural evidence do you have of this?
You have none. The Apostles received their authority from Christ by the laying on of hands. The other believers of the time did not have that authority; only they did. After Christ left, other Apostles such as Matthias were given apostolic power and authority by the same means.
Likewise, if all of the "believers" that you deign to recognize really have authority from God and are called to be His servants, why do they disagree and preach different messages? Christ Himself said that a house or a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. I think it is safe to say that, being so bitterly divided against itself, sectarian "Christianity" cannot claim Christ as its creator.
You cannot escape the fact that you sectarians do not have one whit of the God-given authority that is necessary to lead Christ's Church.
As for your claims regarding the "ben" and "tekna/teknon," I have never seriously studied Hebrew. (As I'm sure you haven't either.) I have studied Arabic, however, and I can tell you that, judging by the Arabic versions of these words, you are absolutely incorrect.
The bottom line is that you are not a prophet. You do not even dare claim you are a prophet. And as I said, just as only a prophet can write scripture, only a prophet can correctly translate and interpret scripture.
Listen to the Pharisees all you want. Or become a Pharisee--go get a degree in ancient languages or "divinity." Knock yourself out. I, however, will follow the prophets and apostles. Just as the Christians in the Bible did.
Sorry, aSh, but your last three long-winded comments have departed so very far from the topic of this thread that I had to delete them.
I know...you're going to say that I'm just incapable of handling your arguments, but the truth is that I told you to stay on topic, and you ignored me.
As sectarian career critics always do, you have once again turned a very specific discussion into an exhausting list of every single thing you find repulsive about my faith.
I don't believe Jesus Christ and Satan are brothers in any sense. Christ was co-existant with God the father and God the Holy Spirit in the beginining. Satan andall the angels were created by GOd the father, God the SonJesus, and God the Holy Spirit. If you state or even infer that Jesus and Satan are brothers you are commiting blasphemy against God. If you don't accept the existence of the Holy Spirit you will be excluded from heaven. Peace in the Lord
"Christ was co-existant with God the father and God the Holy Spirit in the beginining."
Again, this is taking the discussion into the matter of Trinitarianism, which is a different topic altogether. However, you do bring up a very interesting contradiction in the next sentence:
"Satan andall the angels were created by GOd the father, God the SonJesus, and God the Holy Spirit. If you state or even infer that Jesus and Satan are brothers you are commiting blasphemy against God."
Okay, so it is blasphemous to say that Jesus and Satan are brothers. However, it is not blasphemous to say that Jesus created Satan. Right?
The reason people get all huffy about the idea that they are brothers is because they think that their being brothers somehow defiles Christ. However, at the same time, you somehow think that the fact that Christ is responsible for Satan's very existence does not defile Christ at all.
So if I say that Christ and Satan were both created by God the Father, I am going to hell, because I am blaspheming Christ by making such a close correlation between Him and Satan. But when you state that Christ actually CREATED Satan and is responsible for his very existence, that is not blasphemous at all.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
"If you don't accept the existence of the Holy Spirit you will be excluded from heaven. Peace in the Lord"
Well, then I guess it's a good thing that I accept the existence of the Holy Spirit.
They have always been brothers in my mind; the left and right hand of God as it were. Both had ideas on how the next life should be; one chose a dictatorship and the other a life of freedom and choices. It just makes sense.
Jesus and satin are not brothers. the bible says that satin is an angel or to be more specific a cherub. just because god/christ created it doesnt mean they are a son of god. god created everything including the elements and they arnt sons of god but simply a creation like my dog. we become children of god by grace by faith in christ. if christ has to adopt us into the family then how are we already in the family. i can be estranged from my parents and still be in the family. i dont have to be adopted in. lastly christ created satin my freind read john nothing was made that was made exept through christ even satin. it was a good try though.
"just because god/christ created it doesnt mean they are a son of god."
Psalms 8:5 and Hebrews 2:7 both say that God created Man to be "a little lower than the angels." You say that animals and minerals are not children of God because they are lower than us. And yet, though angels are higher than us, they are not God's children...? That makes no sense.
"god created everything including the elements and they arnt sons of god but simply a creation like my dog."
Don't compare your dog to angels.
"we become children of god by grace by faith in christ."
The Bible says this, doesn't it? The Bible also says that we were created in God's image - making us the children of God. Also, Christ repeatedly referred to God as the Father of those to whom He was preaching - even when they were not yet believers. Why would He do so if they were not God's children? That also makes no sense.
"lastly christ created satin my freind read john nothing was made that was made exept through christ even satin."
Christ created everything in the PHYSICAL sense because God the Father gave Him the power to do so. As Ephesians 3:9 says:
"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
God created all things by Jesus Christ. That occurred after He created the spirits of Christ, the angels, and us. If you deny that, then you don't believe in Job 38:7, which shows that some creations already existed in spirit when the world was created - even if you refuse to believe that they were really God's children as the Bible says.
The Bible says that we are all children of the Father, as I have shown. It also says that only believers are children of Christ. So which is true? They are both true. My explanation shows how both are true. Your explanation requires us to ignore the first set and think only of the second set.
You have no argument.
Oh, and it's "Satan," not "satin." Satin is a type of cloth.
I see no proof of your agruements that Satan and Jesus Christ are brothers, no proof in scripture.
Gal 1:8-9 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
The bible teaches not to follow any other books, gospels that are from Angels even if they are from Heaven.
That is why the Book of Mormon is not true. God Himself revealed that to me. I TRUST IN GOD! Sorry.
I pray for you to seek the truth. Peace!
"I see no proof of your agruements that Satan and Jesus Christ are brothers, no proof in scripture."
That would be because you did not read my hub.
I received the following email from someone who did not like this hub:
"According to the Bible, Satan is the fallen angel Lucifer. He was once a glorified being, but he and many other angels fell from grace long ago, becoming devils and demons." Where exactly does the Bible say any of that, graynight? I'd never come across that before in my studies, and just to double check I just did a Bible keyword search on the word 'Lucifer' which gave me zero results.
And here is my response:
I don't know what Bible you are reading/searching, but the King James Version is pretty clear about it.
Isaiah 14:12: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"
Some would say that Lucifer and Satan are not the same being. However, Christ makes this clear:
Luke 10: 17-18: "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."
It would be a stretch to assume that the Lucifer who fell from heaven and the Satan who fell from heaven are different figures. Even if they were, though, it is still clear that they both fell from heaven. It is thus only natural to assume that they were angels.
Revelation 12:3-4: "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."
The dragon in the Revelation verse is clearly Lucifer/Satan. The "stars" are angels, which became demons who now follow Satan.
Realizing this, it only makes sense that the devil would be able to make himself look like an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), as he was an angel of light at one point.
Note: A Hubber named energybill recently posted to this hub. I deleted his post not because I disagreed with it, but because he was one of the many people who think that copying half of the Bible into a blog response with little or no personal writing is a legitimate and convincing thing to do. (It's not.)
You sure do a lot of deleting for someone who doesn't delete comments. It is your hub. Do what you want but don't pretend to be open to discussion or debate.
I did not say that I do not delete posts. I said:
"I do not delete posts unless the writer clearly has read nothing that I have written."
I also delete posts that are not pertinent, as was the case with aSh, and simple spam, as was the case with energybill.
And when I delete, I always make a note of it for the sake of transparency. If I wanted to "pretend," no one would know about my deletions but the author.
Posts that are intelligent and pertinent do not get deleted. Which is why so many posts remain.
Lucifer was a covering cherub not a man made in the image of God If you refer to scripture you will see he has possible many faces. Man (Adam) was made in the image of GOd.
This thread is a good debate. I agree that Christ and Lucifer are Not brothers. God/Christ created all. Lucifer is a fallen angel that was created, but no where does the Bible state that angels were created in the image of God as humans are/where. The Word of God (Christ) does not change, nor does the Bible. Even the different translations of the Bible do not take away from what the Word of God says. The Bible is the only true Word of God.
www.yahuwshua.org
This is what the third commandment really says:
"You shall not be lifting the name of Yâ-hwéh, your Mighty Ones, to falseness, because Yâ-hwéh shall not be clearing from guilt one who is lifting His name to falseness"
[Exodus 20: 7]
The Titles/names "God", "lord" and "jesus" are pagen and wrong. Those names and titles where added later to scripture. The title allah is also false.
The only right and true names are:
Yahweh (pronounced ya-HWEH)
and
Yahuwshua (pronounced yahoo-SHOO-a).
Yahweh means "He causes/will cause to be existed."
Yahuwshua means "Yâ-hwéh is liberation (deliverance)/ wealth"
This is prove that Yahweh Yahuwshua are the only right names
http://www.yahuwshua.org/en/name.htm
Envoy's (angels) are called sons of Yahweh, in that they are created by Yahweh, But they are NOT sons of Yahweh in the literal sense of the word.
But we humans are not only created but also conceived by Yahweh. So we humans are the sons and daughters of Yahweh in the literal sense of the word.
To become a True and Literal son or daughter of Yahweh, you first need to be conceived by Yahweh. And the only way you will be conceived by Yahweh is if you will get the Spirit of the Pure One (holy is a solar term, and all solar terms come from Satan. Originally the word pure was used in scripture. So the right way to call the spirit is "the spirit of the Pure One" not "holy spirit".) And you only get the spirit if you are spiritually immersed (baptized) in the names Yahweh Yahuwshua. And to be spiritually immersed (baptized) in the names of Yahweh Yahuwshua, you have to believe in the names Yahweh Yahuwshua, and believe that Yahuwshua IS Yahweh. So only humans will be the only ones who will be the True and Literal sons and daughters of Yahweh. NOT envoy's (angels).
This is who and what Yahweh is:
1. Yâ-hwéh is One Being, Who Before creation, has separated himself temporarily in 2 parts, His Eternal Force/Power (the Father) and His Mighty Person/Personhood (the Son). This is demonstrated throughout scripture but most prominently in Romans 1:20 and in ZkharYâhu (Zechariah) 6:11-13. The purpose of this separation is so He may visit His Creation without instantaneously giving eternal life to everyone who sees Him in His full Power, and so the old heavens and old earth might not yet run away from His Face and be purified by His Force (that will happen when He reunites).
2. Yâhuwshúa` is Yâ-hwéh in Person. He was Who created the world, He is the Chief of Creation. He was not created. There is no other 'Elohíym to do such a thing as to create Yâ-hwéh. All scriptures which have been used to challenge this fact are mistranslated (Chief as "Beginning"), and the fact that He became the Firstborn of Creation reflects His replacement of 'Âthâ´m (Adam) in that position, much like 'Ephráyim replaced that of R'uwvë´n, Ya`aqóv (Jacob) that of `Ësâ´w, etc. Yahuwshua IS Yahweh's Person/Personhood, and He is the One Who has been seen by many men saying "I AM YAHWEH ELOHIYM" and "I AM YAHWEH OF HOSTS", He is THAT ONE. No one has seen/discerned His? Power, no, nobody has truly seen It, so? it is a crass mistake to state that this Power is the only Yahweh and that His Person isn't!
3. But He will be reunified with His Power/Force again. It is clear and abundantly stated in scripture in? several references that He is the Beginning and the End, that just as in the Beginning? He was within His Power/Force and He came out of It, He will reunify with It physically and be One again at the End, when there is no more sin, no more need for Him to be apart from His Power so as to? not blow away the universe by revealing His Face.
4. Yâ-hwéh is our? Elohiym:
'Elohíym means "Mighty Ones", it is plural. Never mind the "Yehuwdiy" (Jewish) traditional explanation which lies saying that? it is plural out of respect, and is an idiom. And Yahweh is also NOT a trinity. No. The reason it is plural is because Yâ-hwéh is, as stated above, both His eternal Force/Power and His mighty Person/Personhood, thus being plural, though He is One.
5. A spirit is a ruwach, a breath, a wind, not a person/being. For anybody who believe in the trinity, for your information, 1 Yâhuwchânân 5:8 (1 John 5:8) was altered in establishment versions and does not support trinity.
6. The name Yâ-hwéh applies to both of His parts called "the Father" and "the Son", because Yâ-hwéh is both His eternal Force AND His mighty Person (Romans 1:20). This is because the "Father" is the Greatness that is from the Son (Yâhuwchânân 14:26). The "Father" is the Son's own Power (He called Him ’Ëlíy, "My Power" and never once called Him the plural form ’Elohíym (’Eloháy)). Understand that no man has seen "the Father", but multiple people have seen Yâ-hwéh! Who did they see? "The Son". Moshéh asked Yâ-hwéh "show me your Kâvówth (Honor, Worth)", referring to "the Father". But he was only allowed to see the afterglow after He transitioned It in front of him. He declared how He would justify creation, and only allowed him to see the condemnation by the Law. Do not get too hung up on the terms "Father" and "Son" because words are imperfect images of what is spiritual reality, and will make you stumble. The biological allegory is limited in its application (The Glad Tidings of Philippos 10). For example, in Yâ-hwéh, the "Father" is from the "Son", and they are One Being, and the "Son" was not created, but look! If I say the same thing in other terms, you could understand it better: the Honor of Yâ-hwéh is from the Person of Yâ-hwéh, and Yâ-hwéh's Person was not created, Yâ-hwéh is the Beginning.
This is what Romans 1:20 really says:
"For the things not seen of Him since the creation of the world, being understood by the things made*, are fully perceived,? both of His own Eternal Force (Father) and Mighty Person? (Son), for them to be without excuse."
This is what Deeds of the Delegates 2:38-39 (Acts 2:38-39) really says:
And Shim`ówn Këph said to them:
"Each of you reconsider, and become immersed within the name of Yâ-hwéh Yâhuwshúa` for release from sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Spirit of the Pure One.
For the promise is for you and your children, and for all those at a distant time, whoever may call to Yâ-hwéh our Mighty Ones."
This is what MattithYâ´huw (Matthew) 28:19 really says:
"18. And Yâhuwshúa`, having approached those, spoke to them, saying:
“All authority within the heavens and on the earth has been given to Me.
19. Traveling therefore, make pupils of all the heathen masses, having immersed them into the name of the Father (Yahweh) and of the Son (Yahuwshua);
And, the Spirit of the Pure One…
20. …will teach them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you. And here I shall be accompanying you all the days, even unto the completion of the age.”
"Envoy's (angels) are called sons of Yahweh, in that they are created by Yahweh, But they are NOT sons of Yahweh in the literal sense of the word.
But we humans are not only created but also conceived by Yahweh. So we humans are the sons and daughters of Yahweh in the literal sense of the word."
Says who? You? I see no reason to believe this interpretation outside of the fact that you say it is so.
"The Bible says angels are Yahweh's children, but they aren't REALLY Yahweh's children because I say so."
Not very convincing.
"A spirit is a ruwach, a breath, a wind, not a person/being. For anybody who believe in the trinity, for your information, 1 Yâhuwchânân 5:8 (1 John 5:8) was altered in establishment versions and does not support trinity."
For your information, I don't believe in the "Trinity".
Artin2010 Level 3 Commenter 2 years ago
Nice hub my friend in Christ, my understanding is that Satan is a member of legion which is all the army of Lucifer who was the annointed of God Almighty. Satan is an evil entity based here on earth to assist Lucifer in creating confusion and doubt, possibly a brother of the antichrist,so that believers might be persuaded to doubt their faith in Jesus Christ as our Savoir and Redeemer to the Father. I do not believe that Satan and Jesus were or are brothers. They are in fact enemies in battle for the souls of Christian followers of the Living Word, which is the Bible in all of it's forms. Read the Book of John, then Hebrews and Revelation. Jesus Christ born of Mary and Joseph incepted of God Himself is of the lineage from the House of King David. Satan came from Lucifer, which is the fallen covering Angel of the throne of God Almighty. Amen Very interesting theory though. God Bless you Grayknight. Peace of our Lord be with you brother.